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	<title>Comments on: San Jose Tea Party</title>
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	<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html</link>
	<description>Kyle and Anne Haight: Annoying People In Stereo Since 1971</description>
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		<title>By: Kyle Haight</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3111</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Haight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3111</guid>
		<description>Good plan.

I think the next big wave of tea parties is likely to be the 4th of July.  I&#039;m going to be in Boston, attending OCON.  Hopefully the schedule will permit attending the tea party there.  It shouldn&#039;t be too hard to find other Objectivists to come along!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good plan.</p>
<p>I think the next big wave of tea parties is likely to be the 4th of July.  I&#8217;m going to be in Boston, attending OCON.  Hopefully the schedule will permit attending the tea party there.  It shouldn&#8217;t be too hard to find other Objectivists to come along!</p>
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		<title>By: SarahG</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3110</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3110</guid>
		<description>Hmm, all of what you&#039;re saying definitely makes sense. It also sounds to me like these protests are not going to go away as long as Obama and co continue their attempts at &quot;ginormous&quot;-scale govt. looting. I&#039;m definitely going to take a closer look at the next protest, whenever/if that happens. The event you (and other O&#039;ist bloggers) describe definitely sounds like the kind of thing I want to be part of. FWIW, I celebrated the day by buying a new paperback copy of Atlas Shrugged--my old one fell apart from so many readings, I figured it was a good occasion to help sales move along. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, all of what you&#8217;re saying definitely makes sense. It also sounds to me like these protests are not going to go away as long as Obama and co continue their attempts at &#8220;ginormous&#8221;-scale govt. looting. I&#8217;m definitely going to take a closer look at the next protest, whenever/if that happens. The event you (and other O&#8217;ist bloggers) describe definitely sounds like the kind of thing I want to be part of. FWIW, I celebrated the day by buying a new paperback copy of Atlas Shrugged&#8211;my old one fell apart from so many readings, I figured it was a good occasion to help sales move along. <img src='http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Haight</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3109</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Haight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3109</guid>
		<description>I hadn&#039;t heard that the Constitution Party was involved, but it&#039;s certainly possible.  These things seem to be put together by whoever cares enough, which means you get a mixture of better and worse elements.  (And the Constitution Party, from what I know about them, definitely qualifies as &#039;worse&#039;.)  My own experience was that the worse elements, while present, were muted.  The counter-protesters were focused on immigration issues -- pushing amnesty, for example -- which I think was designed to try to provoke exactly the kind of reaction you saw.  That attitude was by no means universal, though -- I spoke to a number of people who were pretty pro-immigrant.

Because the Tea Party movement is a grass-roots phenomenon united more by sense-of-life than by a coherent intellectual position, it&#039;s easy to find isolated examples of people coming from a variety of viewpoints.  I view them less as an expression of an ideology than as a mass audience seeking an ideology to give expression to an incohate sense of &#039;wrongness&#039; about the nation&#039;s course.  That&#039;s why I think it&#039;s important for Objectivists to be involved -- the only way people seeking the answers we can provide will find us is if we&#039;re there to talk to.  If we stay away, the answers on offer will be a stale mixture of the same mush that got us into this mess in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t heard that the Constitution Party was involved, but it&#8217;s certainly possible.  These things seem to be put together by whoever cares enough, which means you get a mixture of better and worse elements.  (And the Constitution Party, from what I know about them, definitely qualifies as &#8216;worse&#8217;.)  My own experience was that the worse elements, while present, were muted.  The counter-protesters were focused on immigration issues &#8212; pushing amnesty, for example &#8212; which I think was designed to try to provoke exactly the kind of reaction you saw.  That attitude was by no means universal, though &#8212; I spoke to a number of people who were pretty pro-immigrant.</p>
<p>Because the Tea Party movement is a grass-roots phenomenon united more by sense-of-life than by a coherent intellectual position, it&#8217;s easy to find isolated examples of people coming from a variety of viewpoints.  I view them less as an expression of an ideology than as a mass audience seeking an ideology to give expression to an incohate sense of &#8216;wrongness&#8217; about the nation&#8217;s course.  That&#8217;s why I think it&#8217;s important for Objectivists to be involved &#8212; the only way people seeking the answers we can provide will find us is if we&#8217;re there to talk to.  If we stay away, the answers on offer will be a stale mixture of the same mush that got us into this mess in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: SarahG</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3107</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3107</guid>
		<description>Hi Kyle,

I drove by the protest (it&#039;s on the way home from my work). When the traffic slowed down, I rolled down my windows to try to get a sense of what was going on at the protest. I was trying to decide whether to stop and join in or not but I heard a lot of people shouting &quot;Build a wall!&quot; and decided to drive on. Sounds like that wasn&#039;t representative of the overall event. Darn. I would have liked to have seen you guys there and add my voice. I had also previously heard that the event was sponsored by the Constitution Party, which is wildly misnamed, so that basically made up my mind. Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kyle,</p>
<p>I drove by the protest (it&#8217;s on the way home from my work). When the traffic slowed down, I rolled down my windows to try to get a sense of what was going on at the protest. I was trying to decide whether to stop and join in or not but I heard a lot of people shouting &#8220;Build a wall!&#8221; and decided to drive on. Sounds like that wasn&#8217;t representative of the overall event. Darn. I would have liked to have seen you guys there and add my voice. I had also previously heard that the event was sponsored by the Constitution Party, which is wildly misnamed, so that basically made up my mind. Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Haight</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3103</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Haight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3103</guid>
		<description>Oscar, I can always count on you to provide the standard liberal response line.  A few points in response.

Arguably, the protests did start a couple of years ago -- under the Porkbusters rubric, which has significant crossover with the Tea Party stuff.  It&#039;s not like there was no organized pushback against excessive government spending during the Bush administration; pretending otherwise is just attempting to rewrite history.  I think the massive government bailouts were another turning point, and those only started about six months ago.  Another reason why people might be more likely to protest excessive spending now is because, well, the spending has gotten a &lt;i&gt;lot&lt;/i&gt; more excessive.  Consider this CBO chart of deficts and deficit projections:

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/obamadebt.jpg&quot;&gt;

During the latter half of the Bush administration, the excessive spending curve was at least trending in the right direction, up to 2008.  Contrast that with the projections for the Obama administration, where the deficit starts at roughly &lt;i&gt;four times&lt;/i&gt; the worst year of the Bush administration, never drops below the worst year of the Bush administration, and, after 2012 trends in the &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt; direction.  Might that provide grounds for people to react negatively?  I&#039;d think so.

I could note that if the left were concerned with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights they should stop trying to pretend the Second Amendment isn&#039;t part of it, and they shouldn&#039;t have raped the First Amendment with an astroturfed campaign for campaign finance reform, but I won&#039;t bother.  I might also note that if the Obama administration were that concerned about habeas, they probably wouldn&#039;t be doing &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/11/bagram/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.  And finally, I&#039;d note that if you don&#039;t think the Obama administration&#039;s economic policies pose a threat to liberty that just shows that you don&#039;t understand the link between economic freedom and political freedom.  Over the long run you can&#039;t have one without the other.  Property rights are the necessary condition for the implementation of other rights; without them, the others will go away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oscar, I can always count on you to provide the standard liberal response line.  A few points in response.</p>
<p>Arguably, the protests did start a couple of years ago &#8212; under the Porkbusters rubric, which has significant crossover with the Tea Party stuff.  It&#8217;s not like there was no organized pushback against excessive government spending during the Bush administration; pretending otherwise is just attempting to rewrite history.  I think the massive government bailouts were another turning point, and those only started about six months ago.  Another reason why people might be more likely to protest excessive spending now is because, well, the spending has gotten a <i>lot</i> more excessive.  Consider this CBO chart of deficts and deficit projections:</p>
<p><img src="http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/obamadebt.jpg"/></p>
<p>During the latter half of the Bush administration, the excessive spending curve was at least trending in the right direction, up to 2008.  Contrast that with the projections for the Obama administration, where the deficit starts at roughly <i>four times</i> the worst year of the Bush administration, never drops below the worst year of the Bush administration, and, after 2012 trends in the <i>wrong</i> direction.  Might that provide grounds for people to react negatively?  I&#8217;d think so.</p>
<p>I could note that if the left were concerned with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights they should stop trying to pretend the Second Amendment isn&#8217;t part of it, and they shouldn&#8217;t have raped the First Amendment with an astroturfed campaign for campaign finance reform, but I won&#8217;t bother.  I might also note that if the Obama administration were that concerned about habeas, they probably wouldn&#8217;t be doing <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/11/bagram/" rel="nofollow">this</a>.  And finally, I&#8217;d note that if you don&#8217;t think the Obama administration&#8217;s economic policies pose a threat to liberty that just shows that you don&#8217;t understand the link between economic freedom and political freedom.  Over the long run you can&#8217;t have one without the other.  Property rights are the necessary condition for the implementation of other rights; without them, the others will go away.</p>
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		<title>By: More Great Tea Party Speeches &#171; AisA Academy</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>More Great Tea Party Speeches &#171; AisA Academy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>[...] (HT Haight Speech) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (HT Haight Speech) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Barclay</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3101</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Barclay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3101</guid>
		<description>Kyle,
This is the best report of the Tax Day protests that I have seen (and I&#039;ve seen a bunch).  I especially like the proactive emphasis you give the occasion.  Without a bit more long-range thinking, these protests are just pissing into the wind.

--Ken Barclay (Kenb in the Objectivism Seminar)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle,<br />
This is the best report of the Tax Day protests that I have seen (and I&#8217;ve seen a bunch).  I especially like the proactive emphasis you give the occasion.  Without a bit more long-range thinking, these protests are just pissing into the wind.</p>
<p>&#8211;Ken Barclay (Kenb in the Objectivism Seminar)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3100</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3100</guid>
		<description>Kyle,

Excellent write-up, and thanks for the mention! With enough of these summaries we should definitely be able to compile a list of the best practices for future events.

Brian

http://reality.ohio.newintellectuals.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle,</p>
<p>Excellent write-up, and thanks for the mention! With enough of these summaries we should definitely be able to compile a list of the best practices for future events.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
<p><a href="http://reality.ohio.newintellectuals.org" rel="nofollow">http://reality.ohio.newintellectuals.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: OscarC</title>
		<link>http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html/comment-page-1#comment-3099</link>
		<dc:creator>OscarC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.leftist.org/haightspeech/archives/467.html#comment-3099</guid>
		<description>Eight years of out-of-control government spending, and this is the first year of protests? If they were truly bipartisan, I would have expected the protests to have started at least two years ago.

And if they are so concerned about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, where were they when Bush was declaring that presidential powers trump all? Warrantless eavesdropping, unlimited detention of US citizens without due process, and the PATRIOT Act are much bigger threats to liberty than the recent stimulus bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eight years of out-of-control government spending, and this is the first year of protests? If they were truly bipartisan, I would have expected the protests to have started at least two years ago.</p>
<p>And if they are so concerned about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, where were they when Bush was declaring that presidential powers trump all? Warrantless eavesdropping, unlimited detention of US citizens without due process, and the PATRIOT Act are much bigger threats to liberty than the recent stimulus bill.</p>
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